I agree with that, it was a bit disappointing. Would have been much better if the smoke came, surrounded Ben like it did, but no cheesy flashbacks (we already know Ben's pain, thanks).
I guess they made Alex act like the teenager she is (was) rather than act all eerie and calm because Smokie figured that was the most effective way to get Ben to listen to her (it).
Still was a slight letdown.
Best scene was Ben shooting Caesar (I laughed and shouted "Yep, dead is dead!").
The Penny/Des scene was also good.
The kidnap Alex from Danielle was a bit weak, most mothers would have put up much more of a fight, especially when alone in the jungle.
Generally, I'm really enjoying Season 5. Respect to the way the writers piece the retrofittings together. Good acting all round for the most part. Music is always great except the producers overplace/over-emphasise it at times.
Let's see what happens next.
Originally Posted by Uncoolio
I liked what they were trying to do, but not so much the way it was presented. The worst of it was the Smokey stuff at the end.
First when Smokey surrounded Ben those visual flashbacks were really lame. I mean Smokey had a certain presence when it appeared in that scene; eerie, ancient, fearsome, you know? Presenting video slides to Ben like "this is your life" or something was really damaging to that.
The other thing that bothered me was when Alex appeared afterward. Assuming she was a Smokey manifestation I thought she should have been more under control instead of yelling at Ben crazily. It was awesome when she was just standing there and staring him down but when she became unhinged I thought it betrayed Smokey's awesome presence again. I would have liked to see a more interesting way Smokey delivered the message through Alex to Ben instead of yelling standard intimidation lines like "do you understand me?!".
I love Alex by the way. I hope we see more of her.
This is my first post and I am honored to share my thoughts on this episode. On a scale of 1 to 10 for activity I would give it a 3. What I mean by activity is that in some episodes there is a lot going on in others not so much. In this episode there did not seem to be much going on, I was left wanting more not from a cliff hanger perspective but from a what that’s it? There were some interesting flashbacks that filled in more details about Charles, Ben, Danielle and Alex. There were also some quick glimpses to some Island Mythology that I appreciated.
What made sense:
The City built on a City type of progression of the temple area indicating how ancient its history is.
I get the feeling the Penny flash back is not complete.
What didn’t make sense:
Ben needing to be judged. He obviously did not need to be judged for his character. He did much worse things, I am sure, then just letting something bad happen to Alex. Sure he felt some kind of guilt and sadness. Unless Alex was pivotal to the Island and he was suppose to protect her. Even then he was attempting to protect her by bluffing her importance to him.
Ben’s house being built adjacent to an ancient entryway to the smoke monsters toilet …The house was built in Darma time.
Still not clear as to why they (Oceanic 6 and Ben) were required to re-crash, verses just travel to the island. Sure the sub was destroyed but why not another Sub. I know this is becoming more of a question and this is not the place for it. But this episode brings that question back to me because of Charles being banished off the Island via sub. Wouldn’t they need to Move the Island so he would not find it? I am sure these are unanswered questions because Ben lied about moving the Island in the first place, as in he needing to move it because of being banished and replaced by Locke.
Yours in Spirit, Alan M Franzenburg
Last edited by noob1kenobi; 04-10-2009 at 01:28 PM.
I can't say this was a bad episode. Not killing Penny was a surprise. When we saw Ben on the phone with Jack all beat up, it was the old Ben who always had a plan and always had the upper hand. But this episode clearly showed Ben losing his powers. The scene of him floating by the dock, spitting up blood was the closest I've seen Ben realize he really screwed up.
But some points dragged. Sun seems to be lost for things to say. Does she ever say WTF? The cast in these scenes isn't acting as an ensemble. They aren't together in a real sense. Ben and Locke are together. Sun is like Vincent, just sort of there. I understand she will have something to say eventually but a really good episode would let us in on it now.
This is my first post and I am honored to share my thoughts on this episode. On a scale of 1 to 10 for activity I would give it a 3.....
Still not clear as to why they (Oceanic 6 and Ben) were required to re-crash, verses just travel to the island.....
Yours in Spirit, Alan M Franzenburg
Welcome to The Fuselage, Mr. Franzenburg. Remember to buckle up for take-off, and that in the seat pocket in front of you is a sickness bag for when needed.
I gave Dead is Dead a rating of a 4 which, from looking at the overwhelming positive reaction this episode has garnered, puts us detractors in a very small group. A 3 for activity is an interesting thought I will have to think about.
I am definitely on board with your overall sentiment about the "re-crash." The whole "with the Ajira 316 flight lets recreate the Oceanic 815 circumstances as much as possible" has always bothered me. The explanation for it had better be better than "becuz' the Island wants it that way" that it seems to have been so far.
There's lots bad in this ep....But everyone believing Ben is not one of them.
Now Ben is Telenovela EVIL. Everything he says is suspect. Everything he does is selfserving. Every person who listens to him, follows him, lets him go, LETS HIM LIVE, is a sucker. They get burned time and time again. He has never paid off on anything he has EVER promised....but this is what they set up. He's a scumbag but is inexplicably convincing to those around him.
The whole scenario where he sets up Ceasar to take out Locke, I thought, was inspired. It actually amped up the Scumbag Quotient. He played Ceasar not to escape Locke, but to convince Locke, again, that he had some shred of believability. That he lied to do this is cool. That Locke, even before Ben did this, realized that this was all another machination, was cool. I have to assume that they planned this long before the fans came out against Ceasar. It is "To Live And Die In LA" brilliant.
But having Lapidus and Sun just standing around in a dark room until Locke and Ben show up is hack TV. Having Ben wander off and reappear without anyone asking where he went is hack TV. Having a NEW faction (behind Ilana) show up and find guns (I have to assume they found them there, because they were the same dated M1 Carbines that Juliet was carrying) and then become all Mercenary is hack TV. Continuing not to address the Rose/Bernard issue is hack TV (Okay, this last is a pet peeve and nothing else)
All the "obvious" questions.....How can Ben not remember the 815 gang? Why did Rousseau say she never saw anyone, when she did? How did Ben know where to go? All these questions have to have been noticed by the Creators. There have to be answers that they have created to solve these things. The big paradoxes, they must have plans to solve those too. The smaller paradoxes....well....I gotta believe that they are all chasing their tails trying to figure those out as the fans find them. I cannot think of a show that did this before....Even the "XFiles" died without answering any of the questions that it posed.
Last edited by Piecar; 04-11-2009 at 09:56 PM.
Reason: accidentally hit the save button.
Niggle on rewatching- Ben says that his Others built the wall around the Temple when it seems pretty clear from the set that in fact the wall is contemporary with the ancient Temple. Silly continuity error, another one.