Let's not forget the one clear example we've seen of someone murdering someone else's father: Sawyer killing Cooper.
That scene really bothered me for a variety of reasons. The number one reason that it bothered me, and we've discussed it here numerous times, I think (Yeah, we're probably up to numerous times by now, lol!), is that the one with the power, Locke, got the one without the power, Sawyer to do the dirty work. Now, like we discussed before, I don't think that Sawyer is blameless, but I actually put more blame on Locke. Is it possible that that Locke was F-Locke at the time? I'm starting to wonder if some of the extra-weird Locke scenes were really F-Locke and not Locke at all...
Boy, with the way Desmond downed the MacCutcheons, he's "totally screwed", to quote Hurley. :P
Let's not forget the one clear example we've seen of someone murdering someone else's father: Sawyer killing Cooper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juniebun
That scene really bothered me for a variety of reasons. The number one reason that it bothered me, and we've discussed it here numerous times, I think (Yeah, we're probably up to numerous times by now, lol!), is that the one with the power, Locke, got the one without the power, Sawyer to do the dirty work. Now, like we discussed before, I don't think that Sawyer is blameless, but I actually put more blame on Locke. Is it possible that that Locke was F-Locke at the time? I'm starting to wonder if some of the extra-weird Locke scenes were really F-Locke and not Locke at all...
That was a lot of anger Sawyer has been carrying all these years... pent-up, you might say... I guess it is best to "let things go"...
Yep, Junie! Lots of "out of character" moments for "our" Locke! That body-take-over stuff must be a slow process... Hmmm. Now I'm wondering if all the Losties haven't somehow been "struggling with demons" (take-overs) all along. Some where just more open to "receiving" them, then others were?
Now I'm wondering if the "fight" is for the characters that were the closest to being good, rather than characters who already seemed to be teetering on the edge of badness. Locke has been good... as Claire has... as Hurley... (I think Hurley is "possessed", by the way.) Notice Kate and Sawyer haven't had any "out of character" moments... other than Sawyer becoming a better person...
Maybe that's were the "Job" business comes in to play. Corruption on an even deeper level than one's property or one's physical body...
A kind word will open up doors that you never knew existed. Forever, the memory of Z...
"God is in the rain..." ~V for Vendetta Reb-Belle on a Pirate Ship
Last edited by Briolette; 03-28-2010 at 06:17 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Funny that you said that, Bri. The last episode or two, well, I wondered the same thing. Notice that we haven't had too many "Conversations with Jacob and Hurley". Hmmm...
Is Hurley the candidate? I change my mind every once and awhile about it. Jack or Hurley? I sometimes think that Jack will become the next Jacob and Hurley will become the next "Guyliner".
Then, I think that Jack will sacrifice himself for everyone else and Hurley will be the next Jacob. Not possessed by Jacob or copied by Jacob, but just the next person to fulfill that role as Guardian of the Island. In my mind, Hurley is the purest of characters. I'm sure that other people think that about him, too.
And yes, I think the war is now and always was saving the candidates. Without the final candidate to replace Jacob (Who did he replace, by the way? That's an interesting question that I haven't seen posted about around here.), the Island and humanity are probably gonzo. It would be great if they all lived and then a choice could be made from five or six living candidates, but I think that it may come down to something like the purest character lives the longest based on the choices that he, Hurley, I think, makes...
Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is dark.
Additional Info
Re: LOyal to the queST #17:...Lead Us Home
Quote:
Originally Posted by hearingvoices
I wonder if TPTB considered the pun Theodicy, The Odyssey?
Summarizing some of the elements of the Book of Job, a Theodicy:
The Book of Job is a frame story, one example among many of similarities to the story of LOST:
Was doing some reading last night and came across something that shed light for me on the discussion of Choice which is key to LOST and has been discussed a lot here.... recently very eloquently by HV. So i thought i'd post it.
Quote:
S6E9
JACOB: Because I wanted them to help themselves. To know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It's all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything. Why should I have to step in?
Now Jacob is, by far, no perfect representation of God imo, and likewise for the statement quoted above... but his point of view resonates with the idea of real choice and how that ties in with 'the problem of evil' (or theoidicy).
Here's the section I was reading... having young kids I especially resonated with his illustration of a child's emerging will.
Quote:
Why doesn’t God just force us to do the things he knows to be right? It’s because that would destroy precisely what he has intended in our creation: freely chosen character. Will is central to personhood, which is what makes the will dear to God and gives a human being dignity. Dignity is of such great worth that it doesn’t allow exchanging human personhood for anything else…
We treasure the will – the capacity for choice – in ourselves. Will has obvious, intrinsic, and supreme value. A small child, without learning to do so, values his capacity to act on his own, which he quickly identifies and stubbornly defends. The child’s sense of things flowing from himself is unmistakably joyous and irrepressible. And adults delight to see the child’s will emerge – “Look at what she did!” and “Did you hear what he said!” In the child and the adult, this sense of creativity is basic to health and well-being.
But the human will in the individual is not only precious; it is a problem. From the strictly human point of view, it is a devastating and unsolvable problem. We all have the experience of willing in a way that is contrary to earlier choices we have made or should have made. Human life is characterized by conflict within the will and among wills. But that statement is really too tame. What we call civilization is a smoldering heap of violence constantly on the verge of bursting into flame. That is the true picture of the fallen human will.
-Dallas Willard
So, perhaps Jacob and MiB represent two sides of this same coin of human will / choice. Jacob sees the positive/good side. MiB only sees the negative/fallen side.
I was thinking that the way Hurley has been acting makes him seem "possessed"... I know that we have been given a basis for Hurley to "see dead people", but I think there hasn't been a transition period for pointing those facts out in recent episodes... things are just not being said. Makes me think that they (tptb) will be springing something weird on us!
A kind word will open up doors that you never knew existed. Forever, the memory of Z...
"God is in the rain..." ~V for Vendetta Reb-Belle on a Pirate Ship
dz77 - Interesting points by you and Dallas Willard. I mentioned the other day that I'm reading the Shack by Wm. Paul Young and although I can't say that it's one of my favorite books that I've read in my book club, there are some interesting points similar to what Mr. Willard is saying.
The one thing that I don't understand is that The Shack says that God was disappointed (for lack of a better word) when Adam and Eve ate the apple because things would have been, well, better, here on earth if they didn't do it. Then, the book goes on to champion the importance of choice and free will and the hows and whys of how and why God can't interfere. That seems a little contradictory to me as I thought that when Adam and Eve ate the apple, they gained choice and free will.
And finally, the book, I think, is stressing that everything that we do from what we do at work as individuals (small scale stuff) to world wars (big scale stuff) is our choice. Yes, I get that philosophy, of course I do, however what about disease? I know that scientists are finding out more and more that a lot of diseases, including cancer, are caused by choices that people make, but what about the people who do things right and are just or simply genetically predisposed to something like that? What is the answer to that question?
Sorry to rant and rave today. This book has me going, like Job has Bri going. I'm going to have to finish the book (almost done, anyways) and let it go. I think that the book is giving me a headache and putting me in a bad mood. Not a big forte of mine, letting go, though...sigh...
A kind word will open up doors that you never knew existed. Forever, the memory of Z...
"God is in the rain..." ~V for Vendetta Reb-Belle on a Pirate Ship
I was thinking that the way Hurley has been acting makes him seem "possessed"... I know that we have been given a basis for Hurley to "see dead people", but I think there hasn't been a transition period for pointing those facts out in recent episodes... things are just not being said. Makes me think that they (tptb) will be springing something weird on us!
I have my own little pet theory about Hurley. I am so arrogant that I think it's brilliant.
I think Hurley is going to be Jacob's replacement and here's why:
I think in the end Hurley will volunteer to stay on the island. Since he can see dead people... he will not be lonely... and my secret wish is that the last scene on LOST is Hurley and Libby sitting on the beach together.
So, perhaps Jacob and MiB represent two sides of this same coin of human will / choice. Jacob sees the positive/good side. MiB only sees the negative/fallen side.
Given the perspective of your Dallas Willard quote, i'd agree with your concluding statement dz.
Undeveloped, or childish will is selfish. It wants things for itself. MiB seems to prey on this by offering a sort of wish fulfillment. Jacob doesn't seem to offer the same thing, but (as in the example of Jack) seems to suggest that mature will is about choosing a path that leads to personal fulfillment.
Two sides of the same coin indeed! When you said that, I got a picture of the little cartoon devil and angel sitting on our shoulders. In a way, that's what Jacob and MiB are.
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