Suliet (Juliet and Sawyer ship): Because blondes have more fun

[DharmaLove]

Originally Posted by Aurora 24

I completely agree that the friendship between James and Juliet is what draws so many viewers to the Suliet relationship. Even though we may never see how they moved from friends to lovers on screen , Season 5 gave us many great moments between them that showed how they became friends and learned to trust and depend on one another. Juliet has a way of calming Sawyer and pulling him back to think and act rationally in intense situations and he is able to give her the sense of security that I think she had been searching for. I love how she just accepts him for who he is and I think that that fact she has always called him James shows that. They just make me smile

Great post! I also loved how she is always able to calm him down.
I don't feel like we need to see them hook up in order to believe they are a couple. Of course, if they decide to show it I will be thrilled , but I just didnt' feel it was neccessary with these two. Watching them learn to trust eachother and growing to depend on one another as friends made their relationship seem more credible as a viewer IMO than just seeing them jump in bed together.

They just make me smile too

[Myha]

Oh yes, Aurora! I've also always loved how she's persistently called him James... Just tells me she saw the real person underneath the whole time. She had the advantage of knowing him on a level that we viewers were the only ones who shared. We saw the flashbacks, she read his file...

[Éowyn_Jade]

Originally Posted by Aurora 24

I completely agree that the friendship between James and Juliet is what draws so many viewers to the Suliet relationship. Even though we may never see how they moved from friends to lovers on screen , Season 5 gave us many great moments between them that showed how they became friends and learned to trust and depend on one another. Juliet has a way of calming Sawyer and pulling him back to think and act rationally in intense situations and he is able to give her the sense of security that I think she had been searching for. I love how she just accepts him for who he is and I think that that fact she has always called him James shows that. They just make me smile

Agreed
Sawyer used to hate himself and that's one of the reasons he went by that name - the name of the man he loathed. It's so cool that from day one, Juliet has always called him James (except when she's talking to other people who know him as 'Sawyer', of course).
She knew more about Sawyer's past then anyone else, having read his file - and with that knowledge she simply, as you said, accepted him. As he was and for who he truly is.

It's interesting as well, in one of their first interactions (Sawyer kisses Kate to raise a ruckus on the 'runway' workplace) - back in Season 3 when they certainly didn't like each other at all - it is Juliet's cry of "James!" that stops him dead in his tracks. And not only that but Sawyer knows she means business.

"That blonde that had a gun pointed at you? She woulda shot you. No problem."

So, even back then there was a sort of strange respect between the two. Remember when she threw him her water bottle and he dumps it out? I love that she actually looks amused by it.

And as has been mentioned here before, when Juliet and James went on the beach rescue at the end of Season 3, their conversation of:

SAWYER: So, you screwing Jack yet?
JULIET: No. Are you?

That was the first time we'd really seen Sawyer smile since the events with the real Sawyer in "The Brig".

[Celia]

She knew more about Sawyer's past then anyone else, having read his file - and with that knowledge she simply, as you said, accepted him. As he was and for who he truly is.

I agree. I don't think Juliet "made Sawyer a better man". His redemption was essentially complete when he jumped out of that helicopter - later retconned as him dumping poor Kate, but whatever. His relationship with Juliet wasn't about becoming a better person, it was about being accepted for who he was. They had both seen the worst of each other - she read his file and saw him kill Tom in cold blood, and when he first met her she was involved in his kidnap and slavery and he saw her kill in cold blood too. Yet they loved each other anyway. They were each other's redemption and reward.

It's interesting that both Josh and Elizabeth have commented that he thought of his wife while playing their scenes. It makes sense that, since both actors were thrown in at the deep end, he fell back on something real - his love for his wife - to portray Sawyer's love for Juliet, which is probably why it came across as the real deal.

[1DocLover]

I don't know, while I think there was always a good person inside of James, and we saw some of that emerge here and there, it wasn't until he got with Juliet that he truly let "himself" out, imo. And I think that was largely in part because of Juliet. As Josh said "Juliet was his redemption and his only shot at a real love that will last." I mean, he didn't have any of that before Juliet. And any changes he did make before he met her, may have been because of a number of things. When Hurley was trying to help him become "a leader" as some put it, the only reason he even attempted to do it, was because Hurley told him he would basically be banished by everyone. He "begrudgingly" stepped up and only for a moment then.

James' complete acceptance of himself and him finally realizing that he was deserving of a real love, and not just some "thing", and that he didn't have to be used or be second best, was only when him and Juliet got together. So, while she may not have been the whole reason for him becoming a better man, she was definitely the person who brought it out of him. (And that whole "why he jumped story" is highly debatable.) Nevertheless, it was a good thing he did jump because it was like him walking out of the ocean and being cleansed in a way and ridding himself of his past in every way, including "Sawyer". And when he walked out of the ocean, he walked right into his future with Juliet.

It will be interesting to see how he tries to shake all that off thinking it was all for nothing. Because he will be completely devastated (as Josh said) that he thinks Juliet is dead. I think it will be hard for him to lose "James" and I know we will see that ol' snarky Sawyer again. But that could be a good thing in a way too. Because he was "Sawyer" when he met Juliet and he'll be Sawyer when they reunite. And then he will remember the reason for it all, the reason he did the things he did and that no matter what, Juliet loves Sawyer/James whoever he chooses to be. She knows him either way and loves him just the same.

[DharmaLove]

Originally Posted by 1DocLover

. So, while she may not have been the whole reason for him becoming a better man, she was definitely the person who brought it out of him.

She was definitely the person who brought it out. She was the only person to truly trust him and I think that made him feel safe enough to be himself.

Nevertheless, it was a good thing he did jump because it was like him walking out of the ocean and being cleansed in a way and ridding himself of his past in every way, including "Sawyer". And when he walked out of the ocean, he walked right into his future with Juliet.

Awww, I love this! Very well said

(And that whole "why he jumped story" is highly debatable.)

Yeah, I really never understood the reason we were given for that

[Myha]

I think we all have opinions on who the character Sawyer was pre-Suliet. Some of us may feel that his redemption was more or less complete before the Dharma years, while some of us perhaps think that the only true redemption for him was in the Dharma years. It could be an interesting debate, but I really think it's possible that we have seen different things on screen, or interpreted them differently at least.

What I think is apparent is that during the Dharma years, James had no reason to pretend being Sawyer. He had to create this new persona in order to fool the Dharma people, and the closest that came to him was just being himself, something he probably never tried before. He still was rough around the edges, remember Phil and the other guy being afraid to go wake him up when Horace was drunk by the pylons, but at the same time he could afford being more caring and perhaps vulnerable. I can only begin to imagine the conversations he would have had with Juliet, both speaking of their pasts....

---

Originally Posted by DharmaLove

Yeah, I really never understood the reason we were given for that

Are you referring to what Cassidy said to Kate?

[Éowyn_Jade]

Yeah, while I think Juliet was obviously a big part of it, you can't pin Sawyer's growth throughout the show on one person or one thing. Lots of people have contributed. And lots of events (both happy and traumatic) have contributed. There were a lot of things that clicked - especially, though, in those three Dharmaville years.

Jumping from the helicopter was such a great moment for Sawyer (while Cassidy's theory of why he did may have played a part, it's definitely not the main thing). The man who was every-man-for-himself, gives himself for the oceanic 6. Also, after that, Sawyer had to step up as the leader (with all the 'old' leaders MIA) - and he didn't shy away from it. Juliet resolutely stood beside him as he did.
Then in Dharmaville - for the first time he's got a real job. Responsibilities. He's got a house and friends and is a respected member of a community. It's a wonderfully fresh start for him (sort of harkens back to what Jack said in the third episode of Lost: "We should all be able to start over") and is exactly the kind of environment he could finally flourish in. Add this in with everyone's comments on how Juliet accepted him for who he was and is (especially since Sawyer knew that Juliet knew about his past, etc) and vice versa.... and no wonder Sawyer was fighting so hard to keep their lives their intact. It was the one time in his life that he experienced stabililty, love, trust, responsibility, self-respect, (etc) all in one place.

However, he ultimately knew that life in Dharmaville wasn't permanent. And wasn't what really mattered. He was willing to walk away from everything and everyone there to be with Juliet on the mainland. And he really didn't seem that torn up about it, actually ("Good riddance."). It was Juliet that was his priority.
The importance of all that in regards to Sawyer's character can't be ignored. We saw that Sawyer has said previously he didn't want to leave the island because he had nothing to go back to. That when it came to "surviving", he went solo, going with Locke despite his interest at the time going with Jack when the camps 'split' at the beginning of Season 4.

Now, his world and heart is with Juliet. Wherever she is, that's where he wants to be. If that was in Dharmaville, he'd be there. But if that meant leaving the island to start from scratch on the mainland, he'll do that. He didn't care where they were, as long as they were together. This change in him, was definitely all Juliet.

Originally Posted by Myha

He had to create this new persona in order to fool the Dharma people, and the closest that came to him was just being himself, something he probably never tried before. He still was rough around the edges, remember Phil and the other guy being afraid to go wake him up when Horace was drunk by the pylons, but at the same time he could afford being more caring and perhaps vulnerable. I can only begin to imagine the conversations he would have had with Juliet, both speaking of their pasts....

ITA!
Although while I think "LaFleur" might have been very close to the real James (obviously much more then "Sawyer"(... I tend to think that he was "LaFleur" with everyone in Dharmaville but the one person he has absolutely just been himself with is Juliet. He dropped all acts with her.

[DharmaLove]

Originally Posted by Myha

I think we all have opinions on who the character Sawyer was pre-Suliet. Some of us may feel that his redemption was more or less complete before the Dharma years, while some of us perhaps think that the only true redemption for him was in the Dharma years. It could be an interesting debate, but I really think it's possible that we have seen different things on screen, or interpreted them differently at least.

What I think is apparent is that during the Dharma years, James had no reason to pretend being Sawyer. He had to create this new persona in order to fool the Dharma people, and the closest that came to him was just being himself, something he probably never tried before. He still was rough around the edges, remember Phil and the other guy being afraid to go wake him up when Horace was drunk by the pylons, but at the same time he could afford being more caring and perhaps vulnerable. I can only begin to imagine the conversations he would have had with Juliet, both speaking of their pasts....

---

Are you referring to what Cassidy said to Kate?

Yes, I always firmly believed he jumped to save everyone. When Cassidy starts to tell Kate he jumped because he was worried about what would happen with them(I can't remember the exact quote), I don't know, it just seemed a little bit of a strech. Like something they just decided to throw in there with no real backing.
Now, I admit I have never been a Kate fan, so I may be a little biased.

[maxaholic]

I agree. I don't think Juliet "made Sawyer a better man". His redemption was essentially complete when he jumped out of that helicopter - later retconned as him dumping poor Kate, but whatever.

each and every survivor began their redemption as soon as they crashed on the island. we had to see what sawyer was made of from the very beginning. he helped to put the raft together, shot at tom and the gang on the boat to protect walt and screamed for jin when they landed in the water. he had already begun his redemption in season one. the part that i bolded seems to be in question. he was in the process of redemption long before that. i think there was a point before eggtown when sawyer told her that he wanted to stay on the island.

His relationship with Juliet wasn't about becoming a better person, it was about being accepted for who he was.

or about bringing out the person that he always was capable of being.

Remember when she threw him her water bottle and he dumps it out? I love that she actually looks amused by it.

ya know, eowyn, when i read this, i started to think of juliet's past on the island. she has always wanted so badly to leave, so she can totally identify with sawyer (jack and kate) when they were being held because she, too, is a prisoner. she had become hardened by ben who was keeping her there, so when she would see sawyer fight against her (them) she would be amused because she understood exactly how he felt. awesome catch!

And when he walked out of the ocean, he walked right into his future with Juliet.

doc, didn't he say, "thought i'd take a dip" or something like that? what a hoot!

dharmalove, there's plenty a reason why they did the helicopter jump. to make sawyer a better man, sacrificing being rescued for his friends (he adores hurley, btw) and to give tons and tons of speculation for the rest of the series.