Welcome to the LOST Rewind for episode 1x06, "House of the Rising Sun "
Some points for discussion:
*"White Rabbit" effectively ended the show's first story arc started in "Pilot". "Rising Sun" begins the next arc focussing on the caves and how living there or not divides the Losties. This storyline ends around the time of Ethan's attack on Claire in "All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues" five episodes later. What are the basic differences between this arc and the one that proceeded it? What aspects of the show, particularly how the characters interact with each other, were TPTB trying to move forward with this arc? One of the interesting things to me about the arc is how it divides the Losties into pessimists and optimists, those who think rescue isn't coming soon and those who hold out hope rescue is imminent.
*The episode introduces Adam and Eve. Before episode 3x07, "Not in Portland" aired, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse gave an interview where they warned people to be on the lookout for an anagram in "Portland" that would somehow relate to Adam and Eve. That anagram ended up being "Mittelos" which rearranged made "lost time." From Lindelof:
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There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living -- or, I guess, slowly decomposing -- proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, "That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this."
Regardless of who Adam and Eve are, do they still hold up as one of the show's iconic mysteries? Has their power already diminished by the end of Season 3 to the point that the audience will have to be heavily reminded of them?
Remember also the stones Jack took as they may come back as important plot points tying Adam and Eve somehow to the end of the show.
*Charlie is attacked by bees. Could this be interpreted as another instance the Island wanted to whack him?
*Locke tells Charlie, "This island might just give you what you're looking for, but you have to give the island something." Keep this in mind as the series continues and references are made to what the Island wants, especially when it relates to Boone -- repeatedly referred to as the sacrifice the Island "demanded." But how does this belief relate again, if at all, to the beliefs of John Locke the philosopher?
*Jin and Sun's relationship is one of the most complex of the entire show. Entering this episode, the two are portrayed one dimensionally: Sun, the submissive wife, and Jin, the stoic, overbearing husband. What's interesting is how their later flashbacks have jumped to specific points in their relationship fleshing out how they met, why Jin ended up working for Sun's father as a "messenger", how Sun learning English led to an affair, etc, etc. In many ways "Rising Sun" serves as the spine for all of those flashbacks, taking all of those disparate moments and tying them together. The devolution of their marriage is painfully clear, and almost rapid over the course of the episode since it covers so much time.
*Contrast, also, how events in "Rising Sun" are portrayed from Jin's perspective in 1x17, "in Translation". By the end of this episode we think Jin is capable of murder... but it's really all a matter of perspective. How much of the intrigue of LOST comes from not knowing a specific action's context and complete history?
One of the interesting things to me about the arc is how it divides the Losties into pessimists and optimists, those who think rescue isn't coming soon and those who hold out hope rescue is imminent.
That is interesting, although I think there's more to it than just pessimism and optimism as well. I think Shannon went through a great deal of denial about facing the fact that rescue perhaps wasn't coming, and this was a factor for her. Sayid said he wouldn't "admit defeat"- for him moving off the beach would be giving up and "losing" in his efforts to get the Losties rescued. Kate's motivation for staying on the beach has been a little more puzzling for me. You'd think she wouldn't have as much interest in getting rescued as the others, but she wouldn't go to the caves. She said to Jack "I don't want to be Eve." My theory is that part of the reason here may be Kate's "born to run" personality. She is beginning to have feelings for Jack (this episode was a very flirty one for them) and is scared by this. She can't settle down and get comfortable anywhere or with anyone. She's might end up losing it if she does. As for Jack, I don't see him as a pessimist for moving to the caves, just practical, and quicker than others in coming to terms with the lack of rescue.
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Regardless of who Adam and Eve are, do they still hold up as one of the show's iconic mysteries? Has their power already diminished by the end of Season 3 to the point that the audience will have to be heavily reminded of them?
I'd be willing to bet that many casual viewers have completely forgotten about Adam and Eve. I'm definitely curious about them, but they were never anything major that stood out to me.
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How much of the intrigue of LOST comes from not knowing a specific action's context and complete history?
A lot, in some cases at least. Take Kate for instance. We knew from the beginning that she did something worthy of being relentlessly pursued by a US Marshal, so it had to be something big. What we didn't know was the action and just as important, the reason for it.
A quick personal note: the past two "Rewind" dates have made one thing abundantly clear to me: I generally dislike Sun and Kate flashbacks. In both cases they had the first episode of a block of three for that week, and in both cases I was reluctant to start watching because I just didn't feel like watching Sun or Kate. This surprises me a bit in the case of Kate (I've never liked Sun, no surprise there)...I didn't realize how little I've come to care for her character.
I agree with Kate731 that many viewers will need a refresher on Adam and Eve if it ever becomes something more than a clue people can see if they rewatch the series. I've found Adam and Eve fairly interesting, but I've always been much more invested in the white and black stones Jack finds there.
I also agree on the intrigue Lost brings into play comes from the ambiguity we're given in many cases in this show.
It makes sense for me to think that Adam and Eve were introduced to suggest the possibility that some of the Losties might end up living and dying on the island and that there really is no hope for an imminent rescue. As was stated before this post, the two stones intrigued me the most about this scene. Why were they there?? What is their significance? This is something I'd like to see answered.
I don´t like Jin and Sun flashbacks that much but Adam and Eve and the stones are very interesting.
The black and white reference is important to understand that good and evil are two halfs of the whole. Up to HOTRS Kate was the one who represented this I think. We knew that she did something really bad but that she is not a bad person, too.
Later on in the show we learned that all of our Losties have a bright and a dark side, even Jack. I believe we are going to see that Ben and the others have a bright side, too.
Adam and Eve ...Jack and Kate? That's Oceanic livery on the wreckage in the cave. (my concession to the time-loop theory - is it isn't from flight 815)
Though I reckon Jack's best bet for crashing (now there's a word - like arriving somewhere uninvited) on the Island would be to use a smaller plane. The beechcraft ought to be pilotable after a few lessons.
The black and white stones - in the bag the way they are - remind me of 'black balling'.
Maybe one of them got ousted from a community and the other went along.
Charlie's bees? so rich in symbolism I don't know where to begin. I'll leave the Christian stuff aside though and say bees live communialy, and have been used as representations of things diverse as industriousness, obedience, creativity ....Napoleon adopted them as heraldic devices and the Egyptians used them too. But yay. At attempt by the Island to off him works for me too.
Don't really see a move to the caves as pessimistic though. I'm more of the 'Wow! what cool caves. Let's go set up a base camp there and go exploring" mind set.
I loved this episode and I enjoy rewatching it often. Every time I read one of Javi's scripts, I'm struck by the richness in character interaction and the way he found thirty seconds for everyone and made them memorable.
I adore Charlie's snark as a response to Jack and Kate's flirting and what a small touch of brilliance that shot of Locke shaving with a knife is when Charlie calls him "The Great White Hunter".
I care about Adam and Eve but I'm certain the vast majority of the audience forgot about them. However, I'm willing to bet most of them forgot about the cable too but they answered that question and it played a big part in the unfolding of major events on the island. I don't see why Jack can't find the stones tucked in his backpack and exposition a bit about the skeletons they found in the caves.
I did smile as the music played over the montage and Willy got to the part about pain and misery ...while the camera panned over torturor Sayid and criminal Kate. Neat.
Other thoughts : (alledgedly) bird killing, polar bear conjuring, rain halting Walt; was unable to stop Jin's assault on his father. He may of course have desired his dad punished on some level.
August 24th is my son's bitrhday - Virgo, if you incline to Claire's belief.
Jin asks for Sun's hand like Des does for Penny's - but fares better,
and my most intriguing moment "You have to give the Island somthing" - Wow! how loaded with dark promise it that? I can't overstate how important this feels. It plays into the extent to which John is culpable in Boone's death, and possibly provides an alternative motivation for pounding Charlie in the surf.
Did John suspect Charlie might be sacrificing the baby - it's speculated the Island asked him for Boone - might we see other sacrifices for favour yet?
Will the Island pay off on Charlie's life for Claire and Aaron's escape, or was that a deal the Island took no part it?
Neat.
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