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House of the Rising Sun Air Date: 10/27/2004 EP: 105
Written by Javier Grillo-Marxuach
Directed by Michael Zinberg


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Old 07-06-2007, 08:48 AM   #21
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Old 07-06-2007, 01:53 PM   #22
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

Two things that brought the time loop theory up for me again, although Darlton said that there is no Time Loop(verify?)

First was the discovery of Adam and Eve on the Island. I may be reading this too literally but what if those are the bodies of Rose and Bernard. The two stones are black and white afterall

Also Rose decided they wouldnt leave the island. They probably grow to a ripe old age and their bodies are left above ground since noone is there to bury them. If this isnt Rose and Bernard at least this little tidbit points out there were only two of them and they probably died at the same time.

Also on a little bit of a tangent, TPTB have made it a point to show what they do with all the dead bodies. At least it seems that way to me:
-The fuselage bodies were burned
-Most of the dead Losties were buried in the "graveyard"
-Nikki and Paulo are buried alive
-Ecko was buried in the woods
Seems like these things might be important as the show progresses

And if they are in a TimeLoop this explains why the island isnt riddled with dead bodies, as most of them have been dealth with.

Secondly, I am drawn back to the timeloop theory with Michaels statement "Time doesnt matter here!" Im sure that even Michael doesnt realize the plausibility of that statement but I think it is a hint us that there is something wrong with the time.

If they were in a TimeLoop time would not matter since everything repeats itself anyway.

Just a thought. I know its probably not true and just a way for TPTB to get us to open our perception a littlebit but still an interesting tidbit
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:15 PM   #23
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Originally Posted by Walt Disney View Post
Two things that brought the time loop theory up for me again, although Darlton said that there is no Time Loop(verify?)

First was the discovery of Adam and Eve on the Island. I may be reading this too literally but what if those are the bodies of Rose and Bernard. The two stones are black and white afterall

Also Rose decided they wouldnt leave the island. They probably grow to a ripe old age...
I don't think Bernard was even part of the story when the very first episodes were drafted (yes, I'm one of those people ), but if they fit it in somehow, I don't mind as long as it works. However, I'd rather they used Adam and Eve to give us a glimpse into the island's history. An Island flashback through their eyes if you will. They died about half a century ago, give or take a decade or so, which would put them into a very interesting context: World War II. I've always figured an island with these "special" properties would be extremely interesting to both parties involved in WWII.

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I love Michael's little speech to Jin, especially in light of Desmond's craziness this past season.
I know you can't understand a word, and normally I'm not the talking out loud type, but since I have a captive audience, I hope for your sake you pay attention. I'm not exactly having the best month of my life. I barely knew my son, and now, I gotta be his daddy. And then to top if off, I have a deranged Korean guy trying to kill me and for what? Look, I get it, right. It's the watch. Mine broke and I found this in the wreckage, and I figured, hey, why let a 20000 dollar watch go to waste which is ridiculous since time doesn't matter on a damn island! Stay away from me. And my kid.
And he is just great wielding that axe!
Hehe. He is. I was one of the few people who didn't really mind Michael, I guess (ok, the constant Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaalting did get on my nerves later on and I feel the writers got sloppy in season 2), but I really enjoyed that dynamic with Walt. He was trying so hard to be his father (and as Jack tells Hurley in "Special", it's not an easy job) and it gave us some nice moments, some of them in this episode.

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When I think how much I hated Jin in the first half of S1, and how much I've come to like and care about him since. . .but then, in a lot of ways, the Island has freed Jin of his life's chains much as Michael freed him from his handcuffs.
I'm a hardcore Jin fan precisely because of this amazing character development. He's such a loyal guy and I love how the writers turned around the "Memoirs of a Geisha" stereotype we all started with and built him into one of the few truly decent people on that island.
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Old 07-06-2007, 02:43 PM   #24
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Old 07-06-2007, 04:03 PM   #25
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Originally Posted by Claudia815 View Post




I'm a hardcore Jin fan precisely because of this amazing character development. He's such a loyal guy and I love how the writers turned around the "Memoirs of a Geisha" stereotype we all started with and built him into one of the few truly decent people on that island.
I second that! Jin is great. Love him!!!

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There are six flashbacks in this episode. In all but one, Jin gives Sun a gift.

First, she gets a white flower while they're courting. And she looks all flowery with that very pretty and sophisticated dress.

Second, she gets the expensive engagement ring. You can tell that she really like it, even though it's too much for Jin's meager salary.

Third, she gets a puppy. Jin is already working long hours, and she comments that before he only needed to give her a flower.

In the fourth flashback, there is no gift. Instead we get that lovely scene in front of the bathroom mirror where Jin tries to wash off the blood on his hands, and Sun realizes that she may just have to leave this man.

In the fifth flashback, she gets her whole apartment redecorated. And we find out she's been learning English and has planned her escape through the interior decorator.

In the last flashback, Sun stays with Jin at the airport, bedazzled by a white flower.

Flowers really are a wonderful gift!
I love this breakdown. Thanks, Jane. Also, I agree, flowers are truly a wonderful gift. Just a simple, single flower. Elegant. Beautiful. What more is there?
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:16 PM   #26
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

The first time I watched Lost, I wasn't very intrigued by Sun and Jin's story, but I've been watching throught them again with a friend, and I think I'm enjoying it more the second time around. Of course, it's extra-fun seeing someone else get caught up into Lost for the first time, and I think that she really liked Sun's story. She was certainly yelling at Jin on the tv. But I think their story seems more complex now that we've seen that Sun isn't simply the lay down and give up wife we all thought she was(at least I did). She seems less like a drab stick figure, and more like a real person.

Things aren't always as they seem.

Other things...

Sayid and Sawyer cooperate to stop Jin from drowning Michael.

When I first saw this episode and the next several, I really thought they were going to have to institute some kind of law enforcement on the Island to deal with situations like this. Wouldn't that have been interesting to watch? Who would have been in charge? Jack, Sayid...? Would it have been a board or panel of some sort, where more than one person weighed in on those decisions? Interestingly, my friend who's watching for the first time, said that exact same thing: "They need a jail on this Island!" Michael seems to echo this thought when he calls Sayid the "Sherriff" and claims that he already gave his statement.

When Jack tells Sayid about the caves, he responds by questioning why Jack didn't consult them when he planned to start his own "civilization." These questions are still being asked at the end of S3.

On Locke: At first, I thought he was to be some kind of father figure on the Island. He certainly seemed so in these early episodes, calling Charlie, "Son," and saying he wants a chance to "get to know the boy." He seemed very perceptive here with Charlie, and later on with Boone, and earlier with Walt. Before confronting Charlie, he first gave him something that he wanted: Recognition. He mentions that he knew of his band, and gave him a positive opinion of his music. I mean, for the last 4 episodes, Charlie has been telling pretty much anyone that would hear him that he is a rock star. The boy craves recognition. Just as Locke said to Charlie that the Island will give him what he wants if he'll give it something, he knows that Charlie will only open up if given something.

But then he never forced Charlie to give him his stash. Does this play into the Philosopher John Locke's idea of the "social contract," where authority is only granted through "consent of the governed"? I wonder what our Locke would have done if Charlie had refused to give him his stash? Turned him over to the Sherriff?
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:46 AM   #27
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Welcome to the LOST Rewind for episode 1x06, "House of the Rising Sun "

*Regardless of who Adam and Eve are, do they still hold up as one of the show's iconic mysteries? Has their power already diminished by the end of Season 3 to the point that the audience will have to be heavily reminded of them?
Remember also the stones Jack took as they may come back as important plot points tying Adam and Eve somehow to the end of the show.

*Charlie is attacked by bees. Could this be interpreted as another instance the Island wanted to whack him?

*Jin and Sun's relationship is one of the most complex of the entire show. Entering this episode, the two are portrayed one dimensionally: Sun, the submissive wife, and Jin, the stoic, overbearing husband. What's interesting is how their later flashbacks have jumped to specific points in their relationship fleshing out how they met, why Jin ended up working for Sun's father as a "messenger", how Sun learning English led to an affair, etc, etc. In many ways "Rising Sun" serves as the spine for all of those flashbacks, taking all of those disparate moments and tying them together. The devolution of their marriage is painfully clear, and almost rapid over the course of the episode since it covers so much time.

*How much of the intrigue of LOST comes from not knowing a specific action's context and complete history?
*I hadn't considered myself a "causal" viewer of Lost but other than the cave itself, I had all but forgotten about Adam and Eve and the stones. Honestly, when Jack starting to dump out the stones, I wondered if those would be diamonds. All I can say is that I really hope that TPTB close this event out properly.

*Unless Charlie was allergic to bees could he really die from multiple stings? In any event, I loved Charlie's humor in this epi. It made his confronting his addiction more humane.
Ex. Kate- "It was....full of bees." Charlie- "I'd have thought of Cs actually." Even Jack had to crack a smile. Also: Locke- "Look up Charlie." Charlie- "Your not gonna ask me to pray or something?"

*I won't bother to analyize Jin and Sun's relationship other than to observe it is very common for people to wed with an ideal and then crash (no pun intended...really) when reality sets in.
And I'd like to state here that Yunjin Kim is one the most amazing actresses I've seen. Her tears are convicing. Her range of emotion is very impressive (innocent yet knowing; scared but tough). I see her going far in her career.

*The best moments of my life are when I'm able to step out of my perspective and see someone in real time. Without presumptions, sterotypes or judgements, I can leave the door open to why a person acts/chooses the way/paths they do. I feel enlightened in those moments. I'm no better educated but I'm open to the energy that we all bring forth in the world. Lost is like that in almost every epi and that is percisely what keeps me coming back.

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I adore Charlie's snark as a response to Jack and Kate's flirting and what a small touch of brilliance that shot of Locke shaving with a knife is when Charlie calls him "The Great White Hunter".
That was a good one!

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Other thoughts : (alledgedly) bird killing, polar bear conjuring, rain halting Walt; was unable to stop Jin's assault on his father. He may of course have desired his dad punished on some level.

and my most intriguing moment "You have to give the Island somthing" - Wow! how loaded with dark promise it that? I can't overstate how important this feels. It plays into the extent to which John is culpable in Boone's death, and possibly provides an alternative motivation for pounding Charlie in the surf.
You bring up two very good points that I haven't taken the time to consider. I believe Walter is exteremly powerful and seems to control his environment. Now I wonder if he allowed his father's beat down to happen.
I also bristled at this comment ("You have to give the Island something"). Again, I'm just enjoying the ride but I appreciate seeing that other people notice the same things I do.

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The House of the Rising Sun is a folk ballad of indeterminate origin, and is most popularly known from the hit version produced by The Animals in the early Sixties. Quite likely the melody comes from a traditional English ballad; folklorist Alan Lomax (whose explanation for the origin of the song is considered the most plausible among many in academia) posits that the extant lyrics were composed by a pair of Kentuckians, Georgia Turner and Bert Martin. The oldest recording of the song dates to 1934, by a Clarence Ashley, who claims he learned the song from his grandfather. This song has a history to it.

The phrase "House of the Rising Sun" is a euphemism for either a brothel or a prison. It may even refer to a real house in New Orleans, possibly a short-lived hotel on Conti Street in the French Quarter from the 1820's which used advertising with euphemistic reference to prostitution, or perhaps a building on the riverfront of the uptown Carrollton neighborhood owned by the Social Aid and Pleasure Club - one of the many krewes which now maintain the yearly Mardi Gras rituals which precede Lent. Neither building now exists. Folk singer Dave van Ronk (whose version of the song led to Bob Dylan "borrowing" the arrangement, which was subsequently "borrowed" by The Animals) claimed in his autobiography that he had seen pictures of the old New Orleans Prison for women, the entrance to which was decorated with a rising sun design. He considered this proof that the House of the Rising Sun had been a nickname for the prison.

Even the gender of the singer can change. Earlier versions of the song are usually sung from the female perspective, a woman who followed a drunk or a gambler to New Orleans and became a prostitute in the House of the Rising Sun, or an inmate in a prison of the same name. From the male perspective, the song warns of the dangers of drinking and gambling, where the Rising Sun may be the house of debauchery where he loses himself.

It's a song that has more ambiguity and texture to it than appears at first, not unlike this episode of Lost, or indeed the whole series.
I beg anyone who happens to read jane-eris's post to check out Nina Simone's version of HOTRS. I'm sure it's on the Gifted and Black album - 1970. It's a live recording and is one of my favorites from her.

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I've always been curious of where Locke gets this idea. The island surely have him what he was looking for (a "Walkabout" of epic proportions), but what did he have to give to the island before he could get it? Perhaps this is just an instance of Locke's being in tune with the island and knowing things by revelation of some sort. Or maybe his faith and devotion to the island is a retroactive "something" he has given over time (and thus why he loses the use of his legs on occassion when his faith and devotion waver). It just occured to me that this is an early version of Ben's magic box speech and Ben's later requirement of Locke sacrificing his father.
I like that connection (magic box/sacrifice) BeLu. Locke must have gotten a heck of a deal from the Island which means he gave something exceptional back. This may not be related, but do you all everybody think Locke really knew Charlie was a part of Driveshaft and that Locke owned both records? Does anyone recall if any of Locke's backstories had Driveshaft playing?
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Old 07-07-2007, 02:05 AM   #28
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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jane_eris
First, she gets a white flower while they're courting. And she looks all flowery with that very pretty and sophisticated dress.

Second, she gets the expensive engagement ring. You can tell that she really like it, even though it's too much for Jin's meager salary.

Third, she gets a puppy. Jin is already working long hours, and she comments that before he only needed to give her a flower.

...

In the fifth flashback, she gets her whole apartment redecorated. And we find out she's been learning English and has planned her escape through the interior decorator.

In the last flashback, Sun stays with Jin at the airport, bedazzled by a white flower.
If you leave out the fourth flashback where there is no gift given and just look at the gifts, they form a nice chiasm.
The first and last gifts parallel each other: both are flowers given which lead to Sun staying with Jin.
The second and fifth (5th flashback, it would be the 4th gift) are expensive gifts with opposite effects - marriage and separation.
And the middle (3rd), which is the emphasized portion of the chiastic structure, shows both the strain of the relationship and how it can be revitalized - with a flower!

Last edited by BeLu; 07-07-2007 at 02:06 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 07-07-2007, 01:47 PM   #29
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Old 07-07-2007, 05:53 PM   #30
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Re: LOSt Rewind: House of the Rising Sun

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Oh, very nice observation, BeLu. I should have picked up on that mirroring of the gifting. Oooh, what about the third and fourth flashbacks having mirrored "gifts"? In the third flashback Sun gets a puppy, which is flesh and blood. In the fourth flashback, she gets to see blood on Jin's hands? He gives her a "gift" of an idead - the idea to leave.
Thanks! I don't think I would have seen it if you hadn't listed all the gifts/flashbacks out like that. That's the fun of discussion boards like this and learning together!

I like the flesh and blood mirroring. The 3rd and 4th flashbacks have a strong life and death quality about them. Sun gets this new life (the puppy), but we start to see that their relationship is dying. And then when we think that Jin just might have killed someone, we see that the relationship is dead as well.

Blood is such a life and death symbol - Hebrew thought at least thinks that the life is in the blood (there's a verse somewhere in Leviticus that says that, and the dietary restrictions and sacrificial systems are based around that principle too), but when we see that life-blood spilled, it points strongly to death. Anyway, perhaps neither here nor there!
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